Rereading “Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret”

Michelle Newman 0:00

Welcome back, everyone. Today we are dropping an encore of episode 117 which was called, are you there? God, it's me Margaret, the movie, the memories and the moments, and if you'll remember, about two years ago, at the end of April in 2023 Lionsgate released the movie, are you there? God, it's me Margaret, and we were so excited and lucky to get invited to a pre screening in Minneapolis. And we had a really great group of our listeners that joined us, and we were so happy to say the movie was amazing. We loved it. And so then right after we recorded this episode, basically about our our reviews, our thoughts, our reactions to the movie, as well as sharing some of our listeners and relatives. Carolyn Margaret moments, basically two years ago, it was a really big deal. Hashtag Margaret moment was all the rage on social media, at least for us it was, and for people of our generation to share their own Margaret moments. And so you'll hear some Margaret moments in this episode coming up, but that seems like it was yesterday, number one and two. God, that was a good movie. Thank

Kristin Nilsen 1:13

God, right. There was. And you'll hear in the episode there was such extreme relief, because anytime somebody takes something that you love and tries to bring it to the screen? You're super excited, and then, what if it sucks? We were worried.

Michelle Newman 1:27

We were we were and we talked about it. I think for about two years, we knew this movie was in the works. I think Carolyn, you brought that to our attention. I think when we recorded our very first Judy Blume episodes, which was in season one, like, episodes like six and seven or something, and you, you say, I've heard they're, they're, you know, they're gonna film a movie. And we were like, yay, oh no, uh huh, yeah. And so we have a little bit of trepidation toward this movie. Would it? Would it honor the book? And would it like satisfy us? And let's just get this out of the way, they'll never be anything as iconic or as great as that book. But man, the movie did a great job. It's so good. We all cried

Carolyn Cochrane 2:10

and because it was just as much for me. I mean, obviously Margaret is the main character, but I really had grew an affinity towards Margaret's mom, and we really got to see that character development a little more. And also now we are Margaret's mom, or we've been Margaret's mom. I mean, we're older now and we've been a mom, so we can relate a lot more to that storyline. And I just love Rachel McAdams portrayal,

Michelle Newman 2:37

so good. And Kathy Bates as, as, Oh goodness, cast, yes. Really,

Kristin Nilsen 2:42

really great, really, really great casting. And there's a reason that we're encoring this today. It's because we are going to have another Margaret moment for us and for our lessons, for us, for our listeners and for readers out there everywhere, because Anderson's book shop in Downers Grove, Illinois has invited us to lead a book discussion on, are you there? God, it's me. Margaret, for their for their customers, and anyone who lives in the Greater Chicago land area. This is part of an ongoing series that Anderson has been hosting called the band book club. They have a book club that reads only banned books. And as everybody knows, Judy Blume is one of the most band authors in history, including Margaret. Margaret is the most innocuous book, although important for all of us, but it's a very simple book that has nothing upsetting in it, except for the fact that women menstruate. It's just a fact of life, people, all of you, don't menstruate. That's a problem.

Michelle Newman 3:43

That's what should be banned, is don't talk about menstruation. You know what Judy blume's books? The reason they are all banned are because she writes about things that really happen. Yeah, she writes, she writes honestly. Sorry, I just had to get that out there.

Kristin Nilsen 3:58

So if you guys are in the Chicagoland area. You're welcome to join us. This book group is really, really fun. They're super engaged. These are mostly adult readers, so although Margaret has written, it was written for us when we were tweens, and is still read by tweens today. But this is a group that likes to just look at the books that people are objecting to and look at why, why or why are we objecting to these books and have a discussion about it in that way. I do think we're the perfect people to lead this discussion for a lot of reasons. We have done so many Judy bloom episodes. We've done them on Judy herself. We've done one on the book The genius of Judy. We've done, are you there? God, it's me. Margaret. We've done then again, maybe I won't. We've done forever. We've done so much Judy Blume that we are just, we're like, running to Chicago right now to start this discussion. And I'm really, really honored that they reached out to us to do this. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle Newman 4:53

And if you are, like Kristen said, if you are in the Chicagoland area and you think, yes, I want to come on April 17. Underneath, just go to our website and up on our events tab, we'll have the information as well as if you are a social media person, in our Instagram bio, right underneath our little description, we have a link tree link. If you click that link, it takes you to a lot of other links. Great stuff about how to find our website, our Weekly Reader appearances, we've had where to listen. But at the very top you will find the information about this event at Anderson's bookshop.

Kristin Nilsen 5:31

And if you're if you don't want to speak up at this book club, oh yeah, feel free to come in this general and just listen in. It's going to be a lot of really engaged people, and they'll have fantastic things to say so, and you probably will want to speak up at some point. But that's not required. It's not required

Michelle Newman 5:48

also, can I just say it is a great bookstore, too. Anderson's bookstore is such such a cute little town, but it's such a great bookstore. So if you do just want to come to listen to some great conversation and please say hello to us. We'll be there on April 17. So with that being said, we hope you enjoy listening to these other Margaret moments as we encore Episode 117

Kristin Nilsen 6:15

Thank you, and welcome to all of our new supporters on Patreon. This is an independently produced show, written, researched, produced, edited, distributed and promoted by us, Carolyn, Kristen and Michelle and paid for out of our own pockets, because it's important to us. But you can help us pay the bills by clicking the Patreon link on our website, pop preservationist.com or by going to our link in bio on Instagram and finding the Patreon link in our link tree. It's one of the best ways for you to tell us that you like what you hear so we can keep on trucking. Thank you and enjoy the show.

Carolyn Cochrane 6:49

We must lift our bus because it's dragging on the floor. I

Unknown Speaker 6:53

must lift up my bus Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 7:00

Hello, there's a song like we're singing. Come on, get

Michelle Newman 7:09

happy. We'll make you happy. Welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who know all the categories of gum, hubba, Bubba, bubalicious bubble, yum and Big Daddy.

Carolyn Cochrane 7:24

We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear, like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition. And today,

Kristin Nilsen 7:37

we'll be saving the event we've been waiting for since puberty, the theatrical release of the film adaptation of Judy blume's Are you there? God, it's me, Margaret. I'm Carolyn, I'm Kristen,

Michelle Newman 7:48

and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Welcome to season nine. We

Unknown Speaker 8:07

had to think because we couldn't listeners, we

Michelle Newman 8:10

couldn't remember if it was season nine or 10, but we have done some research and have come to the conclusion it's season nine. That's a lot of seasons.

Kristin Nilsen 8:20

I know. And seasons don't mean the same thing that they do that they did. You know, in 1980 it used to be that a season was from September to May. Now a season is whenever we want it to me, so let's try to keep track we

Carolyn Cochrane 8:32

can. I mean, like you said, always say to us, Kristen, like we're our own bosses, so we can determine whatever a season is, and we're in season nine.

Michelle Newman 8:41

Listeners. You know, happy surprise for you. We're starting this season a week earlier than planned, for a very important reason, because just three days ago, on April 28 2023, for those of you who are listening, in the future, something big happened at the movies, and we want to talk about it.

Carolyn Cochrane 9:02

We do because we were lucky enough to get to see an early screening of are you there? God, it's me, Margaret. And what made it even more special was that we got to see it with some PCPs, followers and listeners. And to me, that made all the difference in seeing this movie was having it as this collective experience and having it with people, some of these people we'd never met before, right? And we just knew them through social media. And Judy brought us together. And it was friends right off the bat. You

Kristin Nilsen 9:35

have to see it with people you really and preferably with age mates or something, somebody that you went through something with. It was such a joy to be sitting next to people who were as excited about it as I was. I loved

Michelle Newman 9:49

seeing the woman there with her daughter, who was probably about 13. That was really cute, and I'm going to see it again in a few weeks, in a couple of weeks, with my older daughter when she's in town. Because I remember how excited I was when she first read the book and we could talk about it. And she has such fond memories of the book too, so I think she's actually going with friends as well. But then we were like, we have to see it together, so that'll be really fun. Listeners. If you listened to our encore of our Judy Blume episode, which was episode five, episodes five and six. We did a two parter, and we just replayed those a couple of weeks ago. And if you listen to it, you hear us saying, and we're so excited, after so many years, there's going to be a movie, and we talk about it, and that was two whole years ago, a long time ago, yeah, and it finally happened, and here we got to go see it with, like Carolyn said, with our friends, our listeners, our new friends. And it was, it was well worth the wait.

Kristin Nilsen 10:46

Yeah, it was, and to to be with these people that we've never met before, but you're instantly friends because you have the same experiences and the same knowledge. And we went out into the lobby after the movie was over, and we all gathered around the Margaret poster, and we took video of the group of us going, we must, we must, we must. And it's so funny that every single person was all in that one was like, yes, let's do this like we all know. That's such a pivotal moment in our childhood. It's such an iconic thing that Judy Blume created this, we must, we must.

Michelle Newman 11:22

I mean, it's, it's pop it's part of the pop culture, like lexicon, totally, for sure, yes, and I thought it was also funny. And listeners, you might be thinking this too, but several of our listeners, Kristen, included, was were saying, Oh, we don't know if we want to. We did this a little too much when we were younger. Or, like, I want to give some give some away. What

Unknown Speaker 11:43

a gift I must decrease my bus. Yes, I must.

Carolyn Cochrane 11:47

Or mine might be I must, or we must, lift our bus because it's dragging on the floor. I

Unknown Speaker 11:53

must lift up my bus. Exactly.

Michelle Newman 11:54

I thought too. Did you guys feel? Could you feel when we were all gathering in the lobby? I felt like, almost like a buzzing excitement between us. Yes,

Kristin Nilsen 12:04

we were connected by this electric current of some kind, yes, kind of this giddiness. Did you guys cry at the end of the movie?

Michelle Newman 12:13

Teared up? Definitely, just because the end is so poignant and between the mom and the daughter. You know how important that moment is at the end for Margaret, but seeing her mom and yeah, it gave me all the feels. I definitely tear up.

Carolyn Cochrane 12:27

I think I would say, definitely teary. And also it was just because this event happened. It was like we thought about it. I just saw it in front of my eyes. Again. I talk about it a lot in this podcast, but it was, you know, the younger Carolyn and the adult Carolyn kind of together at this moment, thinking, look, you know, here we are and all of that. So when you said all the feels, Michelle, definitely, it was a bunch of feels that I'm not even sure I could describe with words, but they did bring tears to my eyes, for sure. I

Kristin Nilsen 13:02

think, I think I was the same as you Carolyn, and that I might have been crying for, for that reason, where I was inhabiting two different places at once, and that this happened. This really happened. Because the thing that happens at the end, I think everybody who's read the book knows that at the end,

Michelle Newman 13:19

she gets her period, but she's so excited.

Kristin Nilsen 13:22

And so I don't think that I was crying for that reason. I think I was crying for the being together and that. And then I'm watching this on the screen after so much time and so much happiness for Judy Blume that she made this happen, finally, at the age of 85 and I found myself like kind of not being able to stop crying. I just like kept crying. Their credits are rolling and still crying. You

Michelle Newman 13:46

were, you were she was still wiping Kristen's still wiping her face. But you know what, I agree with you guys, it was, it was also one of the feels of all the feels we were feeling was absolutely that, that this book and this character have lived inside of us, and I mean, lived taken up space inside of us for I'm not gonna do the math now, but for a lot of years, and I felt like watching it come to life on screen was it was really emotional. It was just really an emotion that I don't know, like you said, Carolyn, I don't know that I can describe it, and in just a minute, we definitely want to get into the reviews this movie has gotten. But before that, let's give it our own review. Let's give it the PCPs review, like, because it's true. This book, like I just said, has lived in us for so long. This was a big deal to watch it. So what do you guys think? How? How did you like it? I

Kristin Nilsen 14:43

was so relieved I got to tell you, it could have gone so wrong. And there were many attempts to have get this movie made in previous generations, and thank God it didn't, because, I think now is the time, mostly because it was in the hands of. A woman. I mean, think about that. If it had been made in 1979 it would have been Aaron Spelling making that movie. He doesn't have boobs or a uterus. He's never had a period in the hands of two women, the writer and the director, yeah. And so I walked away from it feeling that it was, I'm gonna give it an A plus. And a lot of the reason that I'm giving it an A plus is because of very personal feelings. I don't want to oversell it to you. It's not going to win an Oscar, but that's not what its purpose is. I'm giving it an A plus because it is exactly the same as the way Judy Blume writes. It is straightforward and simple in its language, and it gets his message. It gets the message across, and connects with your heart immediately and very in a very simple fashion.

Carolyn Cochrane 15:46

Oh my gosh. And exactly, I think the key Kristen is the timing, at least for me, is because we the age that we are, that we could appreciate. I mean, honestly, listeners, this is my opinion, but I think it was written more for us, and these, the Gen X people, than it was for really anybody else. But that just the timing. This couldn't have been done at any other time. Yes, because of the women, but yes, because of the audience. I think the demographic, the people that would really get the whole picture. I'm not saying that it's not entertaining and hopeful and all those things to totally different ages, different sexes, whatever. It's so much more meaningful, I think, to us, the first generation to have read it and and the age we are now when it is on the screen. So for me, it was an A plus. For that reason, it just hit me at the right time in my life, and I left feeling so hopeful, which is just a thing I want to feel these days. You guys, it was just uplifting. And, yeah, yeah.

Michelle Newman 16:55

And I agree. I'm definitely going to give it an A plus as well. And I don't want to even repeat, you guys both just put exactly into the words I would have, especially talking about how it was presented, very much like a Judy Blume book. It was very simple. In fact, probably the first 10 minutes. I just because long time listeners, you know that we all feel this way. We all want to make sure everybody's having a good time. Is everybody happy? I was sort of worried about other people in the theater that might not have read the book. However, at this pre screen, clearly everybody had, but I was worried like, oh no. If are, do you think some people aren't, aren't getting it? Like, aren't like, maybe aren't liking it, because it's not that deep. It's very simple. Like, I was like, Oh no. I hope everybody's understanding, which actually brought up a good question, and made me wonder, do I think people and Carolyn, you just kind of touched on this, but do I think people who don't know the book would like it as much as we do? And my conclusion was, I'm not really sure, like I think for sure, it is such a cute and fun movie, and it resonates with adolescent girls, it resonates with all of us who grew up with the book, but I also feel like if you didn't know and love this character and have internalized and felt her story for all these years like we have, you might not, I guess, appreciate it as much as we who have loved and internalized This book all these years, do you absolutely would walk away and go, that was a cute movie. That was a cute movie. But if you had never, ever been exposed to this book, that might be all you think that was a cute movie. However, I think even just having read and loved this book, once you walk out going, that was Margaret, that was, yeah, that was, that was Sylvia, that was all of it. That was, you know, that was a Nancy.

Kristin Nilsen 18:42

That makes me wonder about the age of the person who wrote the review for The Daily Beast, because the headline of their review is, are you there? God, it's me. Margaret, a Judy blue movie. So good. It's a miracle. And it says an instant coming of age. Masterpiece is how the Daily Beast described it. And so you can find other things around the around the interwebs that aren't quite so enthusiastic. And I wonder if that difference is because of the age of the people

Michelle Newman 19:12

I bet. I bet it is. I mean, the ones that I was latching onto and so happy for all the people involved in the movie, where the the one like you just said, I love the movie so good. It's a miracle. Josh Spiegel called it the first great film of 2023 absolute joy, a triumph. I mean all these little, these just little catch phrases coming at you that just fill my heart and make me so happy. I do have a question. You know, whose review Do you think matters the most? Judy blooms, right? Yeah. And I love that. After she saw it a couple of weeks ago at the at the big premiere they had, she said, how many authors can say I think that the movie is better than the book?

Carolyn Cochrane 19:54

And I've got some theories on why, she maybe said that too

Michelle Newman 19:57

well. That begs a question. I think. That I would love the three of us to discuss just for a minute. Well,

Carolyn Cochrane 20:02

I can say, for me, it's, I don't even think it's fair to compare the book and the movie anyway, and why, I think this is my theory on what, on why she may be even liked it more is because in the movie, and I think this is pretty accurate, they flesh out Barbara, the mother's character, a lot more than we that is in the book, rightly so. I mean, the book is for, you know, middle graders and for us going in and seeing it as women and mothers and people that had to make those choices, and having just watched the Judy Blume documentary, it becomes very apparent in her story that that move to suburbia and being a suburban mom, but also having this other calling for something else real. She really struggled with that, and I really think that totally right. Yeah, maybe when she saw the movie, she saw herself in that. I don't know how much she was a part of fleshing that character out with the screenwriter, or, you know how much there is a working together on things like that, because a lot of those scenes, they didn't happen in the book, that happened in the movie with with Barbara. But that's why I think it can be a both. And, you know, it's not because it's not necessarily the things that really struck me, besides the story of Margaret art, was the story of Barbara, which didn't happen to me when I read it in, you know, and it was, of course, that storyline wasn't there. So

Kristin Nilsen 21:33

now it's important to us, right? Exactly. I've heard some people say that, but I did take that in when I was a kid, but her mother did.

Carolyn Cochrane 21:42

I'm sorry everyone, but you know, our little suffragette feminist out there with the toddler picket signs? Yeah, yeah, exactly

Kristin Nilsen 21:50

I do. And it may not have been fleshed out in the way that it was in the movie, but, but the seeds are dropped in the story. Her mom now becoming having a new life and struggling with it in the suburbs and not having a job and wondering what she's supposed to do. And she's an artist. And I want to add that that reviewer from The Daily Beast also said, this recreation joins Paddington in the canon of rare adaptations that are even better than their already stellar original stories. And in addition to that, to pile on to the comments about the mom who was played by Rachel McAdams, the review on Robert Roger ebert.com says ultimately, this film belongs to Rachel McAdams, whose incandescent performance should be remembered not just as end of the year lists start to roll in, but also is perhaps her most accomplished performance yet. Whoa,

Michelle Newman 22:46

I think this was such a different type of role for her, and she actually really made that character so three dimensional. Yes, right. Coincidentally,

Kristin Nilsen 22:55

variety hated the Rachel McAdams Star Line, yeah. So you can see there are two, two different groups of people coming at this from a different way, and they hated it because it wasn't in the book. Other people liked it because it was a good story, and Rachel McAdams did it so well. And did I tell you guys, I got multiple texts from people after the movie saying that that Margaret's mom had some serious Kristen vibes.

Carolyn Cochrane 23:22

I could see it from. I think

Kristin Nilsen 23:23

it's mostly like the frizzy hair. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 23:28

when we read this book originally, we were Margaret age, so we identified with Margaret. Those little children living in us still identify with Margaret, but now knowing that most of the demographic who's going to be going and enjoying and flocking to see this movie are now in their 40s and 50s. They needed to really have something that we could identify with, right? We loved Abby Ryder Fortson, but our current selves aren't going to identify with her, right, as as much. But speaking of Abby Ryder Fortson, I mean, listen, Abby Ryder Fortson is The Girl Who Played the actress who played Margaret. And you guys, let's face it, she had some really big shoes to fill. She did. She auditioned for this role when she was 11, turning 12. This was in February and early March of 2020, she's 15 now. And producer Julie Ansel says she knew immediately that Abby Ryder Fortson was the perfect girl to bring Margaret to life before she even opened her mouth. She says she looked at her face and immediately fell in love. But they had to, then, of course, get that past Judy Blume. They sent Judy Blume her tape, and she was immediately all in as well. So let's talk a little bit about Abby's portrayal of Margaret. Do we think it honored Margaret?

Kristin Nilsen 24:48

Oh, she was perfect, even though the big controversies that the purple cover that we all know had a blonde haired Margaret on the cover, but when I was reading it, I never pictured that blonde haired girl. I pictured Abby Ryder Fortson. I really did. I don't know why.

Michelle Newman 25:04

Well, subsequent covers, she has dark hair, you know, she doesn't always have blonde hair, but you're right. I've, in my mind, Margaret's always been blonde, you know, I think it was such an honest portrayal. I think she had so much vulnerability, you guys, that girl speaks with her eyes,

Carolyn Cochrane 25:20

too. When you think of how much internal dialog is happening. So you know, we hear that the are you? Their god? It's me Margaret like her speaking over scenes, but she's not actually speaking in that scene. Her character isn't so you're really relying on her eyes and her facial expressions. And as we've talked about before, that to us, really signifies a great our artist is somebody who can get all of those emotions and feelings across just through their face, facial expressions. Yeah, and she did that so well. That is so hard. I don't know how I would do that. I'd love to talk. How could you just get it all across in your face? Listen

Michelle Newman 26:05

to this quote from the writer, Kelly Freeman. Craig said, Margaret is a very interior character and is not the center of attention very often in a group. She isn't saying much. She's just hanging back thinking and feeling a bunch of things, and it all has to read on her face when we auditioned her At age 11. Abby could do all of that in a way where you were just with her, you didn't want to look away from her eyes. And I agree, I was mesmerized by her expressions. Yeah, even in

Kristin Nilsen 26:36

the still photos, you can see like when she's looked she's got her hands folded and she's looking up doing she's supposed to be talking to God, and the eyes looking up, and you can and her eyes have a special shape that show uncertainty or pleading. It's just a still photo. Mm, hmm,

Michelle Newman 26:50

yeah. Abby says, the minute I walked out of the audition, I felt like I was Margaret. She auditioned, like I said, not long before her 12th birthday. You guys, she brought in cotton balls and stuffed them in her bra and did the little dance. You guys haven't seen the movie yet. She does the cutest dance when she stuffs her bra. She did that for her audition. She said, I think Margaret came for me at the right time in my life. She hadn't read the book, you guys, she auditioned for this role without even knowing what Margaret was. And she said, Oh my gosh. How did someone write down this experience? This is it like I'm going through this exact same stuff that Margaret's going through. So she got it and on. Roger ebert.com critic Matt figure home says, are you there? Goddess me, Margaret is easily my favorite film released thus far this year, and Abby's portrayal of the titular middle schooler is simply astonishing. It is here where Abby cements her status as one of the most gifted actors of her generation, anchoring every scene with the complex emotions that register on her expressive face. That's

Kristin Nilsen 27:51

exactly great. Yeah, I think she's gonna do a lot more that she registers on her face. A lot of it is just what she does with her eyes, how she shapes her eyes. It's so interesting and well,

Carolyn Cochrane 28:02

and I was just going to say it's on that big screen, it's different than probably when it's going to be streaming and stuff. But when you see are so big, like when we saw Christy McNichol on the big screen recently in little darlings, and you really get to see those eyes and that face, and they're larger than life. It's that's just super powerful.

Kristin Nilsen 28:22

It is powerful. Yeah, you can get so much more out of being having that kind of proximity. And that's why I'm kind of sad about, you know, theater, theater going is not the same as it used to be, and everybody wants to stream it at home. I realize all of our TVs are now 70 inches, but still.

Michelle Newman 28:39

Well, Abby Ryder Fortson is, I mean, I think this is just gonna, this is going to kind of explode her career. She has actually had. She has been an actress for most of her life. She was the daughter in the Ant Man movies. She was in the movie a dog's journey. And we can't talk about casting without mentioning the brilliant casting choice of Kathy Bates, Oh, Grandma, Sylvia. Hi, mad. What did you guys think of that?

Kristin Nilsen 29:04

So, so perfect. She was the perfect Sylvia. And I, when I pictured Sylvia in my mind, when I was reading it, I pictured mother Jefferson again. That does not make sense, because white and Mother Jefferson,

Carolyn Cochrane 29:19

I get what you're saying the character, and yes, that's what delivery and presents and all that, yeah, but she

Kristin Nilsen 29:26

was just so sharp and kind of acerbic, but so full of love for Margaret, like she just couldn't get enough of her granddaughter.

Carolyn Cochrane 29:35

Oh, it was so, so sweet. I loved that relationship, and I loved Kathy. She just her timing, too, is just impeccable, yeah and yeah. So I thought she was perfect for the role. For sure. I want to bring up another character and casting choice, because I left that theater and I just wanted to talk to everybody about Nancy.

Kristin Nilsen 29:58

Oh my gosh, Nancy. I so that Nancy Wheeler, yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 30:02

her name is Elle Graham. And honestly, I got goosebumps watching Nancy on there, because the Nancy's in my middle school life looked just like that Nancy, it's like, did everybody's? Everybody had one? Did everybody's Nancy have stringy blonde hair, white. Couldn't make it, you know, they tried with the but it wasn't quite there. And and the way they walked, kind of like their, I don't know, their chest was out a little, and they just kind of had, like, a little kind of attitude. And her body type, she was just Yeah, and kind

Kristin Nilsen 30:36

of arms akimbo at the same like, if you could be confident and have arms akimbo at the same time, that would be Nancy Wheeler. She did,

Michelle Newman 30:43

and she did such a great job of that kind of false sense of confidence. Like, yeah, you see how confident she was. She was a great little actress. And man, did she embody that character exactly how I had always envisioned Nancy, with that kind of false confidence, where you you don't like her, but then you like her, but then you don't like her, but then you do like her, and you want to get the end and yeah, you feel sorry for her, but, man, you don't like her, and she did such a great job in that, that very important twist right in the in the bathroom at the restaurant. Gosh, right. And you guys, this is a little girl,

Kristin Nilsen 31:19

actress, again, listeners, I hope you know what we're talking about, because this could go a lot of different ways. How do you respond when you get your period in a restaurant do and she was so subtle and so frantic all at the same time, and she just starts crying, but, but Margaret is doesn't know exactly what to do, and she needs help, but she doesn't want to let Margaret know that she needs help, and somehow she gets help. It was pretty masterful how you could be like subtle and crying at the same time, and frantic and subtle. I don't know, but she did it, and

Michelle Newman 31:53

it's a good example when she comes out of the stall of what just one of a million of Abby, of Margaret's Abby Ryder fortson's face expressions, Nancy has them too, and the way they just stare at each other, but the way that Margaret's expression says it all, like every you know exactly all the complicated things she's feeling towards her, you know, using air quotes around friend Nancy, she's confused, she's hurt, she's mad

Kristin Nilsen 32:22

and she's jealous, because there's this contest. Essentially, there's a contest to see who's gonna get their period first. I wanna talk about Sylvia just a little bit more. So our friend Nina from the podcast, dear Nina, conversations about friendship, who has also written a lot about Jewish life, had just one complaint, and it's not really a complaint about the movie, because it actually comes from the book. And she's like, I can't criticize Judy Blume, can I? But reading it as an adult and seeing it on the screen as an adult, again, a different experience than doing it when you're a child. And so look. Okay, so she said, this is in her sub stack newsletter. This was the headline. But Sylvia, why did you bring Margaret to synagogue services. So Margaret is, of course, curious about religion, and she doesn't her parents have told her that she can choose, and so she's just trying to try out all these things. And Sylvia is Jewish, and she very badly wants Margaret to be Jewish, Jewish. So I'm going to read you what Nina wrote. She said when Margaret, whose dad is a non practicing Jew, and whose mom is a non practicing Christian, embarks on a journey to explore each religion and choose for herself. I couldn't help but be super annoyed when Sylvia, the one Jewish role model in Margaret's life, brings her beloved granddaughter to Shabbat morning services, of all places, the child is at zero Jewish exposure. Yet Sylvia brings her to sit and hear Hebrew. That means nothing to her, leaving her lost and bored. It took a lot for me not to yell at the screen, not services. Sylvia, anything but services. And then she goes on to say, so, much of Jewish life takes place in the home. How about a warm, boisterous Shabbat dinner? I wish I could give Margaret fresh challah, chicken soup, roasted chicken and potatoes and some great conversation. I'm not saying she'd be all in on the Jewish mission, but at least she'd have a chance of leaving that event with the good taste in her mouth, literally and metaphorically. Someone get that girl a slice of bobca. But I wrote back to Nina because I was like, I think I know why Sylvia did that. I know why I cracked the code, because although church and temple services are not the same, my grandma loved church so much, so much that she did not know that it was boring and borderline intolerable for me. And so when I'm watching the movie and I'm watching Kathy Bates's face during Shabbat services, she's just like, Oh, she's all aglow. Oh, she's just having so much fun when this long, boring service, and I laughed out loud because I was like, Oh my God, that's Grammy. That's church.

Michelle Newman 34:49

And on that same note, what I was responding with is when my mom used to take my girls to church, just the three of them, oh god, she was Sylvia as she walked in. My granddaughters are here. These are my granddad. This is my granddaughter. This is, this is look at my granddaughters are here today. Everyone. Did everyone see my granddaughters are here with me. And that's what Sylvia is doing, and that's what I resonated with. Was the whole that my mom was just so proud to show off her granddaughter. So that could perhaps to be why Sylvia was like, Oh no, we're going to service we're going to show her off. That's a

Kristin Nilsen 35:19

really good point. I got to show her off and your your imitation of that is not really an exaggeration. Yes, it's

Unknown Speaker 35:26

my granddaughter. I

Michelle Newman 35:28

just loved you guys. I think seeing the relationship between Margaret and Sylvia, as well as Margaret and her mother actually come to life, were my favorite parts of the movie, because I they came to life in a way that I had imagined them, but actually seeing it happen, it was just it was everything. I cannot wait to see it again.

Kristin Nilsen 35:48

I know, yeah, I know.

Let's talk a little bit about the setting of the movie. Because I think one of the brilliant decisions that they made is to actually set the movie in 1970 when the book was written. And I don't think that would have been the case had they made it in another era.

Michelle Newman 36:14

Yeah, you're probably right. Could they have I mean, do you think that was even a consideration?

Kristin Nilsen 36:17

I don't think so. I just can't imagine. I think the 1970s setting the it was so nostalgic for us. It was it was the clothes, it was the hair, it was the kitchen, it was the telephones, it was the bikes that they were riding. And it adds so much more context and interest. I think it's visual interest and it's nostalgic for us? Yeah, I

Michelle Newman 36:41

think that the interior of Margaret's house, for me was spot on. Now, in 1970 I was only, you know, one. However, that style, you know, kind of it just filtered through, carried through the 70s. Because for me, it was the wicker plant stands in front of the windows. And it was one of them was kind of shaped like a heart, and then one was kind of spiraled, and there were spider plants, and so many spider plans. There were like, you know, chef, I forgot even that story, yeah, thank you. My mom. We had plants everywhere.

Carolyn Cochrane 37:14

Plants, when I think about it, dude, just growing up, they were like part of the decor. They weren't even like an accessory. We had one of those terrariums, those plastic ones with the big glass like or plastic globe on the top. You know, yes, my mom got, my dad got my mom for Christmas one year, as you can imagine. I'm not sure it was on her list, but Dad got it right last minute. You know, it was a piece of furniture bit, basically, I mean, it was prominently in our formal living room, even for for a long time. And I was amazed. I would just go stare at that thing, because, you know, it created its own condensation, so you never had no water the plant and it stunk.

Kristin Nilsen 37:52

It did not,

Carolyn Cochrane 37:56

yeah, it stunk. Well, the other piece of of the set that really resonated with me when I saw it was, was the webbed lawn furniture. I could feel it. I can feel it. We're talking about it. Yeah, so there were people in law scene where there's a chase lounge in the webbing. I won't say where, when all that happens, and he's trying to make it go back. I mean, I can remember that it's the long one.

Kristin Nilsen 38:22

It's the one that's like, in three parts, like the kind of Snoopy tries to unfold at Thanksgiving, right? It's, yeah, long

Carolyn Cochrane 38:28

chase lounge, but it's that webbing. And, you know, sometimes it would come, like, start their fray, and it just stretches the

Michelle Newman 38:35

back of your legs

Carolyn Cochrane 38:38

pull a thread. Yes, yeah. I remember being young and thinking like, when a kind of larger person would sit in one I'd get kind of nervous, like, especially if it was threadbare in some spots, I'd be like, yeah, kind of taking a little bit of an inhale, like, I hope they're okay. But yes, when I saw that that was that web furniture. It was just

Kristin Nilsen 38:58

the way he picked it up was, yes, that was very reminiscent, like, he picks it up and he shakes it out, just like

Michelle Newman 39:04

Snoopy. And Didn't he have a TV dinner? I think he had a TV dinner. TV dinner. Yeah, did you notice at the first I think it was at the first meeting, the girls meeting, didn't they all have cans of tab? Yes,

Speaker 1 39:15

I was top, yeah, yep, yeah.

Michelle Newman 39:19

So, great job. So kind that you'll take off and throw away. I wish we had, we don't know, whoever you are, set decorator, or if that's what you're called, you did a great job. How much

Kristin Nilsen 39:27

fun would that be? All messed up, and just like, just the somebody must have been in charge of the kitchen, like you're gonna have the living room, you're gonna have the kitchen, you get Margaret's bedroom, the kitchen. There's so much opportunity in the kitchen, just with the bakeware, right? All of the Corningware. It was that white corning ware with the little blue etched design on it, and

Carolyn Cochrane 39:48

the cookbook when she's cooking, and oh my gosh, yes, it was the little, little things that just made it feel so right. And

Kristin Nilsen 39:56

there's so many telephones in this movie too. There's a lot of. You gotta call Sylvia. Sylvia's calling from Florida. And so you just get the opportunity to see a telephone in a way that you don't see any more. TV shows don't have telephones anymore, and you don't hear them. So when

Carolyn Cochrane 40:14

people just show up, like, there's a scene where Nancy's mother stops by like she's not just text before and like, are you home? I'm gonna stop by. Like, when people would just ring your doorbell, and if you open the door, you were there, and if you weren't, you weren't, or, you know, even your friends who would can Carolyn come out and play. Carolyn,

Michelle Newman 40:33

okay, but that brings up a good point, when that first scene happened, when they're unpacking and the doorbell rings and they're like, they kind of Margaret and her mom kind of look at each other, like, Who would that be? Because they just moved in, you guys. And I'm not even gonna say recently. I'm gonna say, like, as many as the past 10 years when my kid, when both girls, still lived at home, if our doorbell rang, they like, hit the floor and like, crawled and hid in the family room. And I would be like, What the heck is going on? God forbid they were home alone, we would get emergency calls. If my husband and I were out at dinner, someone just drank the doorbell. It's okay, just don't answer it, yeah, or just don't answer it. Who do you think it is? I'm like, I don't know, because nobody rings your doorbell anymore. No,

Kristin Nilsen 41:18

no. Nobody rings it. Except so when that scene

Michelle Newman 41:21

happened, and she's like, kind of shrugged, and she just goes running off to answer the door, yeah, I had a moment in myself where I was like, Margaret's going to answer the door. Like, what has happened? Like, this isn't realistic. That wouldn't answer the door. That wouldn't happen. And I was like, Oh yeah, 1970 it would have absolutely happened. I

Kristin Nilsen 41:38

mean, seriously, in 1970 your doorbell probably got rung three or four times a day,

Michelle Newman 41:44

and you answered the door, then you answered it, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 41:47

whether it was kids coming to play or a neighbor who needs a cup of sugar, your doorbell, right? The paper boy needing is $2 Yeah, yeah. There's a cameo by Judy Blume and her husband, George Cooper. We're not going to tell you where it is, because it'll be like a game. But when it's so funny, when we're sitting there in the theater and Judy Blume goes walking by, the whole theater went

Carolyn Cochrane 42:10

it was this collective moment. I loved it. I loved

Michelle Newman 42:13

it. She was precious. Okay, she's wearing a hat. Yes,

Kristin Nilsen 42:19

adorable. It's so adorable. There were some times, too, where I have to say there were lines that were pulled directly from the book that immediately lit up the synapses, where I knew it was word for word two that I can remember off the top of my head was when Sylvia flies to Margaret's house from Florida after Margaret's Florida trip gets canceled, and she opens the door and she says, Well, if you can't come to Florida, I'll just bring Florida to you. And of course, she's with her man friend, Mr. Binnen run and it just felt so like I could see the type in front of my face when they said those words, yeah. I mean, well

Michelle Newman 42:59

done. The screenwriter again. We just, we just, I just, we appreciate it, like you just appreciate it. And it's like, you know the screenwriter is not our age. I don't I honestly have no idea. I'm gonna assume the screenwriter is younger than us, because everybody is but like all doctors we see now, right? You guys, all our kids, teachers, everyone's younger than us, but she knew she had a big job, and that job was not to disappoint us. I mean, she did not want any part pressure of the, you know, the Gen X women coming down, we're not nice when we're angry, because, you know why, we don't care anymore. And you didn't want

Carolyn Cochrane 43:39

to disappoint. I mean, I'm sure that you didn't want to disappoint. Judy Blume either. I mean, those are some, yeah, I guess that's

Unknown Speaker 43:45

probably more shoes too. Can you

Kristin Nilsen 43:46

imagine disappointing Judy Blume? That would my heart would hurt so badly I couldn't recover. Oh gosh. Well, one thing the film has ignited on social media is the sharing of Margaret moments. Hashtag, Margaret moments is what you'll see on Twitter and Instagram all over the place. And this is people. It started out with people from the movie, people in the cast who would face front video, share a moment from their own personal experience, from their own life, where they sort of felt like Margaret. And then that sort of grew and it spread, and other people started sharing their Margaret moments too. Yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 44:21

And so we asked our followers and listeners to share some of their Margaret moment stories with us as well.

Kristin Nilsen 44:27

I think the ultimate Margaret moment happens every day as I run into people I know, like right now, because when we were 12, we asked everybody if they had gotten their periods. And now in my 50s, I ask everyone, are you still getting a period?

Unknown Speaker 44:43

It's exactly the same. Oh,

Michelle Newman 44:45

hilarious. You know, when I've been thinking a lot about this, and as you guys know, and our longtime listeners know, I moved a ton as a child. I went to 10 different schools in 12 years, so I had Margaret moments yearly, basically. But the one that always comes up and that you guys. Know well, is when I was a new kid in the fourth grade, and I puked up the Thanksgiving lunch in the library. I mean, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of that. You guys. This is probably the fifth or eighth time I've said it on the podcast, but that is a Margaret moment. I was out of place. I was embarrassed. I didn't know what to do. I have another Margaret moment in ninth grade where you know I had recently got my period. Girls, we know when you first get your period, it's not gonna come four weeks later, you don't know when it's gonna come, knowing four weeks past it hadn't come, maybe seven weeks past it hadn't come maybe nine weeks past, I didn't know, but what I do know is that I was at one of our after football game dances, and I am rocking out to safety dance, like a lot of you know, right? And I happened to be wearing wearing white pants, and the lights were down, and it was great. I remember dancing with a certain boy, fast dancing. But you know, like I've told you guys before, we thrashed ourselves around. The lights were off in the gym, we just let loose. And I got home, and all up my butt on my white pants, and my crotchet was red. The only thing I can hope is that, you know, my friends would have, hopefully they would have told me. So I just always was like, oh, please let that have happened on the way home, because you don't know when you're going to get it. And so that has stuck with me like that. Was mortified. I was mortified when I got home. How long had that been there? Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 46:26

my sister reminded me. So I talked with her yesterday about her Margaret moments, and I'll share a big one in a little bit. But a few things she had reminded me of was the importance of friends in that exact situation. She talked about, like, when you were in class, and you thought maybe it had happened. You weren't sure. You waited till, like, your best friend stayed behind, and you waited till the class shuffled out, and then you were like, pretended you had to tie your shoe while your friend stood behind you, or you, you know, shuffled out the door at a certain length, and your friend would, you know, give you the thumbs up or whatever. And then hopefully, if it was a thumbs down and you needed to address it, you had, as my sister said, a sweater or a jacket that you could conveniently tie around your waist, but you relied on your friends to let you know and hopefully not laugh at you, or

Kristin Nilsen 47:14

the zip up sweatshirt in sixth and seventh grade. Super important.

Michelle Newman 47:18

I mean, just keep it on your person at all time. Keep it in your locker all

Kristin Nilsen 47:23

the time. I wanted to keep them

Carolyn Cochrane 47:25

because we might get chilly. You never get chilly, so make sure you have or having

Kristin Nilsen 47:29

a hot flash. You got to whip it off. Whip it off. You got to be able to get it off quickly. I am one of those few people who didn't tell my mom when I got my period. Really, I didn't. And for months, for months and months and months, Oh, wow. And yeah, she found out and and she confronted me about it. I mean, I think what I was doing, basically was taking my underwear and stuffing in the back of my underwear drawer. So, yeah, sorry, Linda. And so she found it. She's like, guess what I found? Would you like to tell me about that? And so she said, How long has this been been going on? And I lied, and I said, I think it had been like six months. I think, oh, last month it just happened. And so she's probably learning right now that it had really been like six months. And I remember being so my biggest concern was that she was gonna blab to everybody, as if this was good news, right, like I had just won the spelling bee or something. And so I exactly, I was so afraid. And so my my request was her to her was, don't tell Grammy. Please don't tell Grammy, the same Grammy who loved church.

Carolyn Cochrane 48:34

Well, I've got to share the first time I got mine. And here's something else I want to bring up that I did not identify with Margaret in I didn't kind of want to get it. And once I got it, and I was not like calling my friends or whatever, I immediately I went into a depression. I swear to goodness, it was like under the covers with them pulled over my head. But when I got it, my mom had just come home from the hospital maybe a couple days before, after having a complete hysterectomy, okay? And so I came home, she was fine and all that. And so when I told her, Oh my gosh, the tears, she was like, I'm not gonna get mine

Michelle Newman 49:21

anymore. I passed it on to you. And then it was, We gotta call your dad at work. And no,

Carolyn Cochrane 49:27

so, yeah. So speaking of phones, you know, isn't when you had two lines like, I had to get on the line in the kitchen. She was on the line in the bed, in the bedroom, and we had to call it like,

Unknown Speaker 49:37

Tom, guess what. And you like,

Carolyn Cochrane 49:41

oh. And honestly, if she hadn't been bedridden, we probably would have, you know, gone out to shake his pizza or something to celebrate. So I want to share my story that my sister shared with me about the first time that she got her period. So my sister is four years younger than I am, and this Margaret moment. Takes place when she is in seventh grade and I'm a junior in high school. And so she was explaining that she had broken her ankle the week or two weeks before. So every day when she'd get home from school, head into our sunken family room, turn on love connection, as she remembers, and yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 50:18

be back in two and two, have some, like,

Carolyn Cochrane 50:20

Nacho Cheese Doritos or something. Just like every other afternoon she's laying on the couch, has to go to the bathroom. And so she said she had this like system. She'd hobble over on her crutches to our powder room, which was very narrow and rectangular, and then she'd drop them, turn around and hop backwards three steps, and that's how she got to the toilet. So on this one particular day, she that she does this, sits down on the toilet, and as she said, Aunt Flo has was visiting with a vengeance, like this is her underwear is full. So I'm home. I've come home from school, and as she describes it, I immediately like grab a Diet Coke or a tab or something, and go upstairs to my room and close the door. That's what I did every every day when I got home from school, my parents are at work, so she's having to yell to me to come help her with this situation. So finally, I get the message or whatever, and she said, Carolyn, you came down with a fresh pair of underwear for me and the largest Maxi pat that I have ever seen. It's in the history of maxi pad. And you kind of told me a little bit what to do, and she said that she was mortified as to what to do with this underwear that she had been wearing. And so I'm like, you just put it in the sink, in cold water, because that's what my mom had always done, and that's what she had told us. So the stain doesn't so she puts it in there and hobbles back to the couch, goes back to love connection. Dad comes home from work, and dad says, How are you doing? You know, Ronnie, okay, good. He goes to go to the bathroom and starts screaming, and goes to the bottom of the stairs, and was like, Carolyn, get down here right now. I could have invited people over after work. And honey said she already knows I don't like her very much, in her opinion. So she's like, on the crutches trying to get up to my dad to say, No, Dad, it wasn't Carolyn, it was me. He's yelling. She finally says that to him, and he turns to her, and he's like,

Unknown Speaker 52:21

Oh my gosh, you're a woman.

Carolyn Cochrane 52:25

We're gonna go to the green tree in tonight to celebrate. That was, like, our favorite Italian restaurant, and that is my sister's Margaret moment story. And I I wouldn't have gotten it right, because I'm sure I would have thought I came flying down with some just sisterly advice and put my arm around her, and was like, now we're sisters, really. And she's like, I threw this maxi pad at her, told her to dump her underwear in the sink, and went back

Kristin Nilsen 52:55

to your tab, and I got a cold tab upstairs. I

Michelle Newman 52:59

like how she says that you brought down the biggest maxi pad in the world. It was probably just like a normal size, regular maxi pad, which which actually makes me think of our good friend and listener, Gail's Margaret moment that she shared with us. You guys. Listen to this.

Speaker 2 53:16

Hello, Carolyn Kristen and Michelle. This is your super fan Gale, I will always be grateful to Margaret for showing me that I was normal before Margaret, I thought I was the only one who practiced wearing a maxi pad, also known as a feminine napkin. What did that even mean? Could you tell there was a puffy rectangle the size of my arm and my pants, and how did it look from behind when I wore my light tan corduroy Levi's and why was I so much taller when I was sitting down? It was such a confusing time, but Margaret helped me cope. Thank you, Margaret, and thank you. Judy Blume,

Unknown Speaker 54:01

oh my god.

Carolyn Cochrane 54:04

Oh. And that concern. I remember in high school I had these polyester uniform pants, these black polyester kind of butt hugging pants, and I have a distinct memory of standing on my bed trying to look in the mirror when I had it on, if you could see it, and then calling my sister in, and was like, Ronnie, can you see this? I mean, it was like the size of your palm back there,

Michelle Newman 54:29

right? And she said, Yes, according to Gail, it was like a maxi pad booster seat, right? It's like, I went to tampons right away because of that. And also I was in cheerleading and dance and stuff. I didn't want to tell my mom that I was wanting to use tampons. It felt really embarrassing to me to let your mom know you were going to stick something up your vagina. And so I knew my mom used tampons because she was never secretive about it. Like we had a very open we could talk to my mom about anything, but that just felt very private and very weird. And so I. Into her bathroom, and I can picture it perfectly, and I opened up the instructions, and on the instructions, it tells you to lay on your back with your knees. But it's probably the only time in my life I did that. But you know, I was laying on my back with the paper up trying to read it.

Kristin Nilsen 55:18

Gosh, okay. Next, we heard from Megan McCafferty, who is the author of the Jessica Darling series. You probably remember that from these are young adult books from the early 2000s like 2006 I think was the first Jessica Darling. Big freaking deal. And Megan has the cutest story about how she found out about periods,

Speaker 3 55:37

like many of our generation, the first time I heard anything about menstruation was when I read, are you there? God, it's me. Margaret, I was only in third grade, a voracious reader. Had already zipped through all the age appropriate books in the bloom cannon. So it was no surprise that I didn't get my facts straight. The most glaring error was how I thought my period was something that I'd get once in my life, and when the bleeding stopped, it was over and done with forever, much like the period at the end of a sentence, my punctuation based misunderstanding was cleared up one summer afternoon two years later, when my mom took me across the street to my best friend Adrian's house to watch a very special film strip borrowed from the local middle school. It was all about, you know how monarchy would open the one the door to the wonderful world of womanhood. And there was like the soft rock soundtrack and a lot of golden backlit shots of long haired girls, smiling, laughing, you know, all overtaken by the joy of menses. It was in that film strip that I realized that my period was not a one and done situation, but that I would be getting my period, that I would bleed for about a week every 28 to 30 days for the rest of my life, which seemed, well, not the rest of my life, but, you know, for a very long time. And that seemed very unfair, especially when boys got boners and wet dreams, which I also learned about from Judy Blume. And then again, maybe I won't that is unfair.

Michelle Newman 57:06

It is unfair.

Carolyn Cochrane 57:07

I've always said that

Kristin Nilsen 57:10

yes, and I'm thinking they kind of enjoy the wet dream too. Oh yeah, right. And

Michelle Newman 57:15

please tell me they don't enjoy the boners. I guess not if it's in public. But you know, there are times when they enjoy the boners. I Megan, your mother, though, earns so many points. I love I can just see Megan's very 70s, very woke mother, right, going, you know what? To her friend across the street. Let's borrow this film strip and get the girls together. Maybe get them like, got some snacks out, like they took it into their own hands, not to just tell them about periods, but to get a film strip, and also then it's a strip strip. I can't,

Carolyn Cochrane 57:44

probably rent the projector too, and we didn't have film strip projectors at home, so they went

Unknown Speaker 57:50

and got the whole,

Carolyn Cochrane 57:52

the whole collection of stuff. Oh my gosh, so funny.

Kristin Nilsen 57:55

We heard from another author as green, also known as Anne. We're just call her Anne, but you can find her books as green. She writes supernatural romance. You can find them all over the place, and she told us a story about bra shopping.

Speaker 4 58:08

I loved the Margaret movie so much, and it conjured so many 1970s memories, particularly the bra shopping one after reading the book in fifth grade, my friends and I all made a pack to ask our moms to take us shopping for training bras, which side note always made me think of boobs bouncing around a track to the Olympics theme song. Anyway, I didn't want to be the only one who chickened out, so I put the bullet and I asked, which resulted in the most embarrassing shopping trip of all time. I wore my new training brought to school the next week under three layers of shirts, and was furious when none of my friends had gotten up the courage to ask,

Kristin Nilsen 58:50

totally betrayed by her friends. And you know, what's so funny is that she told me that she actually, for whatever reason, wanted to impose this same injustice upon her own daughter like the horror show of going bra shopping, and it totally backfired, because when she brought her own daughter bra shopping, her daughter was like, Excuse me, ma'am, this size doesn't work for me. Can you hand me? Excuse me, Mom, Mom, could you get me another? Get me a bigger one. Mom, mom and her daughter had no shame whatsoever. And Anne was like, what is happening? Gosh,

Carolyn Cochrane 59:24

I yeah, I remembered my first bra shopping experience, much like Margaret's, but what made me think I needed a bra was first gym class day of sixth grade, and we changed clothes for the first time in a locker room. You guys, I took off my shirt, and everybody else who took off their shirts, they all had bras on. It's like I hadn't gotten the memo. It was mortifying. And if you guys know nothing else about me, you know that I don't like being the different one. I like fitting in and being like the crowd. Oh my gosh. So I immediately went home and had. A almost identical Margaret experience when I went to bra shopping with the woman that's taking out the tape measure and then going and getting these boxes, the boxes, the boxes, yeah, and so I can, I can relate. It's

Michelle Newman 1:00:14

that's traumatizing. You needed a friend like Nancy to go around and snap your back to make sure you had a you had a bra on. Well, speaking of bras and getting your bras and getting the box of bras, our little sister Lori, we she is one of the hosts of the Untitled Gen X podcast, which we've talked about before. We call it our little sister podcast. We love Lori. She was born in 1976 so she could be our little sister. And she shared a story about the occasion that she was the recipient of her first bras. And it's, it's mortifying. Here we go.

Speaker 2 1:00:49

Hey, it's your kid sister, Lori from the Untitled Gen X podcast. Do I have a bra story for you? Okay, picture it. It was 1988 Christmas Day. I'm sitting around the Christmas tree with my mom and my dad. And something you want to know about me is I was very, very shy about my changing body. I was not ready for puberty. Puberty was not ready for me. We were not friends. And so, you know, my mom hands me this beautifully wrapped Christmas gift, and I go to open it so excited, and it's a box of training bras. So what did I do? I did what any 12 year old would do. I screamed and cried and ran to my room, and I did not want to rejoin the family, or ever look my dad in the eyes again? Like, really, mom, bras as a Christmas present? No, and that, my friends, is not how it's done.

Kristin Nilsen 1:01:55

That is not okay. That is not okay.

Michelle Newman 1:01:59

But you just slipped those two to Lori mom, like, yeah, in private, especially because Mom, mom had to know how Lori felt about her growing body, her changing bodies. Lori, we're sorry. So here's a funny story. This comes from our good friend Erica wides, who we've had on the podcast a couple of times. Erica is an actress, she's commercial actress. She's a chef, she's a teacher. You know her from the hilarious cooking and social media funny people making food. She remembers to this day that in the book, are either a god, it's me, Margaret. Margaret's mother heard her mom sniffing her armpits, and that would indicate she knew the weather was changing when she heard her mom sniffing her armpits. In actuality, in the book, Judy Blume says, I caught my mom sniffing her armpits. But isn't that funny? How we you know for decades, Erica has thought that Margaret heard her mom sniffing her armpits. So much so, too. First, yes, I did it too. Why would that? Well, that doesn't make any sense, but that makes that's what I thought that she heard her mom sniffing her armpits, and that's how we meet Margaret's mother, Erica. Has this has been in her brain and in her in her memory, so much so that she actually conducted an experiment with her sister. Listen to this.

Speaker 5 1:03:20

Hey Gals, it's Erica, your BFF. Okay, so, like, literally, I could recite Margaret by heart, still, pretty much, even though I haven't read it maybe since like 1980 like the second I got my period, I was like, okay, Margaret, I get it. We're done. But the thing that stands out to me is that opening thing where Margaret wakes up and knows it's warm out because she can hear her mother sniffing her armpits in the next room, about, like, should she put on deodorant? Okay, so first of all, I was like, what? Like, how could she hear that? Like, if you're just going sniff, sniff, you know, it's one thing. But if her mother was like, you know, like, her mom was like doing lines of blow in the bathroom, like, maybe. So I was like, not so sure. So I actually tested it out. I made my sister go in the bathroom and sniff. And we lived in a very small house, so I would have heard her, but you cannot hear her. Okay? So, like, everything Judy Blume has ever written said to me, is like gospel law, like the truth, but that scene, nope, no, Judy, you can't hear someone sniffing their armpits in the next room. I'm sorry now, as a very prematurely smelly child, I also was like, why wouldn't her mom just automatically put the deodorant on every day regardless? Because, you know, it might get warm, you might smell later. And having been sort of caught without deodorant a few times and embarrassed by Bo I was like Margaret's mom, you better get on it.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:49

I love that she makes her sister go in the other room.

Kristin Nilsen 1:04:55

How interesting that that one tiny scene, which is not extensive and has nothing to. Do with any plot painted such a picture in our minds. Because I too, like, did some acrobatics trying to figure out how she could hear her mom, and also picturing her mom sticking her nose in her armpit, like, how that would actually work. And I didn't know that smelling was something that came with puberty too. So I'm like, why are we even talking about

Michelle Newman 1:05:19

this? And I can remember very vividly. I remember that part of the book. She mentions it a couple of times in the book, and I remember that I used to do that to see, like, oh, like, you know when I started smelling, when you started having underarm odor. And I remember feeling, feeling very validated by that part in the book, like, oh, even, like, her mom's even doing it, like, because I was really embarrassed. Like, if my armpit smelled, and maybe it was before I was didn't do this, like,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:44

maybe this is just my back. No, I'd be like, Oh, I was

Speaker 6 1:05:54

doing it right now. She's like, sticking, scratching your back the Mary

Michelle Newman 1:05:58

Catherine Gallagher, where you put your fingers in your wet armpits and smell them. You know that's that's relatable. What I still do that sometimes. And when I'm nervous, I stick my fingers in my armpits and I rub, and then I

Kristin Nilsen 1:06:20

go, and this, you guys, this is what this movie has done. It's brought us out of the shadows so we can talk about these completely normal and utterly universal experiences out loud without whispering. I am so grateful and relieved that this movie was good. It could have been so mediocre, especially in the hands of someone from a different era, or like when there were no women directors, right? That would have been bad. Maybe Judy Blume had to wait 50 years so that a woman could be at the helm, someone with a uterus. And placing the movie in 1970 was the cherry on top, giving it a backdrop that feels nostalgic and adds so much visual interest that makes it more fun for everyone, not just the people who remember 1970 go see this movie. Thank you, Kelly Freeman, Craig for making this happen, and Thank you Judy Blume for all of the things, for everything, everything. Thank you for listening, everybody, and we'll see you next time. Yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:16

thank you guys so much for listening. We had such a great time today talking about the Margaret movie and our Margaret moments, and we'll continue some of that discussion in this week's Weekly Reader, along with links to some of the voices that we featured in today's episode. And this week, we are sharing some of our favorite finds. So be sure and subscribe. If you are not already you can do that by visiting our website, at pop preservationists.com or at our link in bio on Instagram.

Michelle Newman 1:07:50

You guys, this was such a fun start to a new season, being able the three of us to not only talk about one of our very favorite books, Margaret, but to talk about puberty

Unknown Speaker 1:07:59

and puberty stories all damn

Michelle Newman 1:08:01

day. Yeah, and we are so grateful to all of you who listen and share things, your fun stories with us, and for those of you who take the time to rate and review our podcast where you listen, because it's really, really helpful to us. And of course, we have to thank our supporters on Patreon, because they are, quite honestly, what keep us trucking. Today, we're giving a special shout out to patrons, Joanne, Amy, Stephanie, Mel, Lydia and Susie, you guys, you're amazing. You're just amazing. Yes, honestly, there's only so many ways we can say it every time, but we appreciate, we appreciate all of you. We really do.

Kristin Nilsen 1:08:43

In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast, courtesy of the cast of Threes Company, two good times, two Happy

Michelle Newman 1:08:50

Days, Two

Carolyn Cochrane 1:08:52

Little House on the Prairie. Cheers, the information,

Kristin Nilsen 1:08:56

opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our opponents or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards, Nan and nanny, keep on trucking and many the force be with

Speaker 7 1:09:19

you. Something always happens whenever we together, we get a happy feeling when we're singing a song, traveling along with.